Curse

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 15, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

thanks guys, just found out my system specs.

In more detail, anyhow.
AMD Athlon Xp 2200+
1.79Ghz, 512 RAM
Nvidia Geforce FX 5500
--

I've just been over to the shop today about RAM. I'm planning to buy it tomorrow, hopefully adding up to 1gb in total. (adding 512 to my current 512)
The only problem I (may) have is I don't know how many RAM slots my system has - currently I believe it has 2 x 256. If my system only has 2 slots, then I guess my best bet is to get the current 256's removed and then add 2 x 512's.

Just a few questions.

1: Is the difference dramatic between 2x 512 and 1 x GB? Or 2 x 256 and 1 x 512??? Will it make a huge effect on loading?

2: Currently with my specs, My computer tends to jump about abit (screen freezes, music jumps) when I load a screen in GW or join mass action. (NOT LAG I don't think. I never really have internet issues) Will an increase in RAM cancel out/dramatically reduce this problem? I hope so, as on some occasions in RA when I load the screen, combat starts fast and some times I don't have time to react because my computer is jumping about.

Thanks Alot
Ashleigh

EternalTempest · Feb 15, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleigh McMahon

1: Is the difference dramatic between 2x 512 and 1 x GB? Or 2 x 256 and 1 x 512??? Will it make a huge effect on loading?

2: Currently with my specs, My computer tends to jump about abit (screen freezes, music jumps) when I load a screen in GW or join mass action. (NOT LAG I don't think. I never really have internet issues) Will an increase in RAM cancel out/dramatically reduce this problem? I hope so, as on some occasions in RA when I load the screen, combat starts fast and some times I don't have time to react because my computer is jumping about.

1. Not Really - Yes but it's so slight you won't see the difference.

Make sure you buy a pre-packaged "pair" of the memory in one package if you go the 2x512 route. If you buy 2 mismatched memory stick, the pc runs at the slower memory timings between the two.

I would go 1xgib if you are planning to go to 2 gb in the future and you only have 2 slots. It may actually be cheaper to buy a high speed 1xgb stick

2. Good chance you will see improvement. I would also defrag your harddrive. A fragmented gw.dat file can also add to this problem.

You want to buy fast timing memory. Memory will usually have something called CAS. The lower the number, the better. Example it could be displayed as CAS/CLS 2-2-2-2-5 or 3-3-3-3-6 or shortened form of 2-2-2-5.

It may actually cheaper to buy a fast 1xgb stick vs a "paired same speed" 2x512.

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 15, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Thanks. A 1x 512 will cost me £44.99 whilst a 1x 1024 will cost me £84.99. I want to avoid the 1x 1024 unless I have to buy it due to slot sources.

Empedocles · Feb 15, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

You want to buy fast timing memory. Memory will usually have something called CAS. The lower the number, the better. Example it could be displayed as CAS/CLS 2-2-2-2-5 or 3-3-3-3-6 or shortened form of 2-2-2-5.

This is misleading, unless you have all the high end stuff already. Tight latency isn't the best in terms of speed/money. You get much better performance if you buy some value ram and invest the surplus in a faster gpu.

For the reference, anandtechs.com test:

The difference between memories of different latency are really really small.

The full review can be found at:

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2878&p=1

Actually, the tests I wanted to refer:

Quote:

3D games have always reacted readily to any increase in the speed of the memory subsystem. We see that again here, but the reaction isn't very enthusiastic. However, you can see that higher-frequency memory enjoys a certain advantage over slower-frequency one and allows achieving a higher frame rate whereas the memory timings affect system performance less. We shouldn't overestimate the role of fast memory in gaming applications. For example, the results of DDR2-533 and DDR2-1067 differ by only 5-10%, i.e. installing the twice faster memory leads to a negligible performance increase even in games.

Tachyon · Feb 15, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleigh McMahon

Thanks. A 1x 512 will cost me £44.99 whilst a 1x 1024 will cost me £84.99. I want to avoid the 1x 1024 unless I have to buy it due to slot sources.

Ashleigh McMahon,

I'm guessing that you're using DDR PC3200 RAM as it's by far the most common. If so, then 1GB can be had for £50 over here.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=MY-030-CR

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 15, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

No Idea about the PC3200 bit, but my price list definately says 'DDR'.

Slomo · Feb 15, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

As my guildies would say, i'm currently running GW on a "hamster-wheel driven Spectrum ZX 128" which isnt a state of the art PC... its actually a 3yrs old Laptop...

Specs (b4 upgrade):
P4 2800
512 RAM
Crap Integrated 64mb Graphics

It ran GW guite nicely, but with a lot of map-load time and the frequent LAG-spike (during times of heavy spell-casting enemy movement, mostly during large map entries)

Recently i read abt the -image "trick", and that cut my map loadtimes to about 2/3rds of what they used to be.

Then i went out and bought a second stick of 1x512mb DDR400 RAM to complement the 512mbs of RAM i already had, and now my maploadtimes are about 1/2 of what they used to be.

Its hard to say what did the trick for me, but i'd say a combination of the two: -image + more RAM, gave me faster maploads.

Adressing the issue of actual IN-game lags: these still occur at times, but nowhere near as frequent as they used to, but they still come out to "freeze" me once in a while...

- image + more RAM did it for me... and the ram only cost me about 70euros (50£ ca.)

Next project to make GW a smoother experience: New PC!

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 15, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Slomo.

By ingame lag do you mean when your computer freezes abit when mass action is happening? I occasionally have that problem with 512 RAM.

Can ya tell me that 'image' trick please?

llsektorll · Feb 15, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

i upgraded recently maybe you can see how it the upgrade affects the game

Old PC
Asus NForce 4 Mobo
512 DDR
GeForce 6600GT 256mb
AMD 2400+ 1.8Ghz clock
Game Runs at 10-20FPS. Occasionally in a empty district game will run at 25 FPS on average it will be 14FPS in game. That annoying lag when you first face your team is there which it slows me down to freeze for up to 10s.
specs for bech: 1440x900 no AA lowest gfx

New PC
Asus NForce 570
2 x 1 GB DDR2 667mhz (5.4Gbps)
AMD 64 x2 (dual core) 4200+
XFX (overclocked) GeForce 7600GT (bought this card till i get my 8600GT to be released)
Game runs at 58-65 FPS (4x AA 1440x900 max gfx)
the game runs at that frame rate always... and never slows down. Loads are instant whether im in Ha with 24 people or in GvG it is constant speed. Only time it slows down is on 8v8v8 in HA it goes down to 35 FPS for 2s when we initially meet the team and then speeds up again back to 60FPS.
BTW as a comparison i can run F.E.A.R. at 1280x1024 with 4x AA max resultion with no LAG... haven't tested FPS yet but my estimation it should not be lower than 45FPS.
Ram does matter and GW is a RAM HOG!!

P.S.
before nightfall came out i used 512+128 DDR on my old pc and it did help the load times a bit but with nightfall you really need to upgrade your pc.

Dex · Feb 15, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

i upgraded recently maybe you can see how it the upgrade affects the game

Old PC
Asus NForce 4 Mobo
512 DDR
GeForce 6600GT 256mb
AMD 2400+ 1.8Ghz clock
Game Runs at 10-20FPS. Occasionally in a empty district game will run at 25 FPS on average it will be 14FPS in game. That annoying lag when you first face your team is there which it slows me down to freeze for up to 10s.
specs for bech: 1440x900 no AA lowest gfx

New PC
Asus NForce 570
2 x 1 GB DDR2 667mhz (5.4Gbps)
AMD 64 x2 (dual core) 4200+
Game runs at 58-65 FPS (4x AA 1440x900 max gfx)
the game runs at that frame rate always... and never slows down. Loads are instant whether im in Ha with 24 people or in GvG it is constant speed. Only time it slows down is on 8v8v8 in HA it goes down to 35 FPS for 2s when we initially meet the team and then speeds up again back to 60FPS.
BTW as a comparison i can run F.E.A.R. at 1280x1024 with 4x AA max resultion with no LAG... haven't tested FPS yet but my estimation it should not be lower than 45FPS.
Ram does matter and GW is a RAM HOG!!

P.S.
before nightfall came out i used 512+128 DDR on my old pc and it did help the load times a bit but with nightfall you really need to upgrade your pc.

Ummm......you upgraded a LOT more than your RAM!

As for Guild Wars being a RAM hog...I find it to be more RAM efficient than most other games...not a hog. Ever played Oblivion? Now there's a RAM hog!!! Honestly, 1GB is plenty for Guild Wars and most other games out there for the time being. I really doubt you'll see much difference between a straight upgrade from 1GB to 2GB...perhaps a few seconds faster load times, but not much more unless you're running a bunch of background apps.

If you're buying a new PC 2GB is a good way to go. If you're upgrading an old PC just to play GW 1GB is a great amount. I wouldn't spend the money to upgrade an older PC to 2GB.

BTW, llsektorll, are you using the same 6600 or did you get a new video card as well?

llsektorll · Feb 16, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dex

Ummm......you upgraded a LOT more than your RAM!

As for Guild Wars being a RAM hog...I find it to be more RAM efficient than most other games...not a hog. Ever played Oblivion? Now there's a RAM hog!!! Honestly, 1GB is plenty for Guild Wars and most other games out there for the time being. I really doubt you'll see much difference between a straight upgrade from 1GB to 2GB...perhaps a few seconds faster load times, but not much more unless you're running a bunch of background apps.

If you're buying a new PC 2GB is a good way to go. If you're upgrading an old PC just to play GW 1GB is a great amount. I wouldn't spend the money to upgrade an older PC to 2GB.

BTW, llsektorll, are you using the same 6600 or did you get a new video card as well?

sorry if i didn't mention earlier im using GeForce 7600GT 256 DDR3 till I get geforce 8600GT in a few months.. my 7600GT cost me $100

lightblade · Feb 16, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashleigh McMahon

1: Is the difference dramatic between 2x 512 and 1 x GB? Or 2 x 256 and 1 x 512??? Will it make a huge effect on loading?

Yes, there IS a dramatic difference between 2x512 and 1x1GB.

2x512 is better, because it allows you to activate DDR (double data rate) if your motherboard supports it. DDR only works with 2 or more memory sticks and most manufacturors recommend to have memories of the same size.

Dex · Feb 16, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Yes, there IS a dramatic difference between 2x512 and 1x1GB.

2x512 is better, because it allows you to activate DDR (double data rate) if your motherboard supports it. DDR only works with 2 or more memory sticks and most manufacturors recommend to have memories of the same size.

No, DDR is always active...has to do with when data is transferred during the pulse in a clock cycle. What you're thinking of is dual-channel memory configurations that require matched, even numbers of modules (usually 2). They HAVE TO BE THE SAME SIZE modules, and with picky memory controllers like that on the Athlon64, they usually have to be exactly the same module down to the revision number.

Dual-channel is a good thing, but in the end doesn't make an enormous difference. It looks really good in memory bandwidth benchmarks, but depending on how much your game relies on data transfer rates with your system memory will only result in a 1% - 5% overall increase in speeds while gaming.

llsektorll · Feb 16, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

With new games coming out I recommend getting a new RAM but also with increasing needs of Bump mapping and Vertex shader requirements I recommend upgrading your graphics card from 5500 to something else... 6600 series would be a good one... but don't go for too high a gfx card because your CPU will bottleneck your performance (laymans terms your slow cpu will slow down your overall performance no matter how expensive or powerful your card is)

Lonesamurai · Feb 16, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

ashleigh, in all honesty, i'd reccomend a full system upgrade, not just better RAM

you won't get much of an increase by adding 512mb ram on your current system and to be honest, 1 gb of DDR2 ram is much more than 512mb of DDR ram

plus with prices dropping, you can get a nice AM2 motherboard and dual core processor, 1gb ram and a nice 7600GT graphics card for £250

llsektorll · Feb 16, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

wait till sping to upgrade when dx10 cards from 8000 series will come out... you will get cards for as cheap as 125 bucks or less for 8600 and 8300 series...
just wait you will like it.

I couldn't wait but thats just me...

Lonesamurai · Feb 16, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

wait till sping to upgrade when dx10 cards from 8000 series will come out... you will get cards for as cheap as 125 bucks or less for 8600 and 8300 series...
just wait you will like it.

I couldn't wait but thats just me...

Depends wether you want to go that high that quickly though, although you don't get the full capabilities of DX10 for the 7000 series geforce cards, they work beautifully and if your building on a budget, they are a sound investment, especially a 7600GT at only £60 at the moment

MegaMouse · Feb 16, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Ram upgrades are the cheepest way to gain some more speed form your computer. By upgrading the system ram you give Windows and your programs more "foot room" to work better by taking them off the "Virtual Ram" that is on the Hard drive which is a heck of a lot slower than the system ram. Most computers are happy with 1 gig of ram but the more you have the better. Windows XP can run with 256 but barely as that is the miniumum that Microsoft reccomends for it. Other upgrades that give noticable speed increases are a new CPU and on occasion a new Graphics Card. Other things that can improve the performance of your computer are, switching to DSL or Cable internet if available in your area, and having a motherboard with a network interface that is at least a 10-100 type although most now come with the 10-100-1000 gigabit ones(not real sure about if the 1000 speed is utilized by many gamers due to their connection speeds though).
In conclusion upgrade to at least 1 gig, I run my gaming computer with 4 gigs and it is rather fast, and with that much ram I can run my mp3 player without problems. One other thing , Windows XP cannot address over 4 gigs of ram properly so it is not advised to go beyond that.

Mega Mouse

easyg · Feb 16, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Really, the cheapest way to gain more speed is to tweak the OS, particularly if it's Windows XP, which installs with a bunch of junk you don't need and don't want.

Toss out the useless garbage. Stuff like Windows Messenger. It's just clutter. Edit SYSOC.INF file to get it to show up in Add/Remove Programs, then delete that garbage immediately.

Windows Automatic Updates is another well known system choke point, especially at startup. Turn that thing off.

A system with 512 mb RAM should be able to run Guild Wars just fine. If the system is bottlenecking cause all the physical memory is allocated, chances are the system is bogging down from a host of background applications hogging precious resources.

I think it would be in the best interest of the OP or anyone to begin by optimizing Windows itself. It costs nothing and it's a good idea anyway.

Ashleigh McMahon · Feb 16, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Hey. A few hours away from getting my pc back. Using an old one atm.

Looking forward.

Need one question answered though:

Will 1gb cure my 'freeze on load' problems + long load times?

Thanks
Ashleigh